UPDATE: Our TiVo Mini review is live!
TiVo hasn’t yet gotten around to officially launching the TiVo Mini, but that didn’t inhibit at least one retailer from selling a unit today. And while cmonroe didn’t exactly out the “big box” store, we’ll go ahead and assume it’s Best Buy. There’s probably not much left to learn at this point in regards to TiVo Mini functionality or pricing, but it’ll be good to start getting some first hand accounts of performance. Once he gets around to activating it. Although I’ve got some Reward Zone cash burning a hole in my pocket, and may just pull the trigger tomorrow without waiting for a report.
Interestingly, the packaging seems to confirm rumors of an upcoming retail 6-tuner TiVo DVR: “Compatible with any TiVo DVR with four or more tuners.”
Is there any chance that TiVo delayed the mini launch a quarter (I’m guessing) because they’re pulling up the Series 5 launch? Or is that just wishful thinking?
I’ve already ordered the Roku 3. Next week, the TiVo Mini. Later this year, a six tuner TiVo! This is great!
Ugh! Poor TiVo, just can’t get it right or done on time.
Having a tuner put aside for a minute, this device SHOULD have been out in 2010. An extender SHOULD have been part of the original series 4 design plan. Plus another model with built-in tuner and CC (due to lack of tuners) for those who INSIST on having a tuner available(why, I never really could understand – but there you have it for them).
As far as now.. considering the Mini was originally supposed to be out MONTHS ago, it’s surprising that they STILL have to delay the “dynamic tuner” concept AT ALL. Why you can’t all the basic OSD screens is beyond me. And not allowing use with the 2 tuner premieres is just goofy and creates MORE confusion, again. Plus, you KNOW they WILL allow it soon, so why bother?
It really makes you wonder WHERE ALL THE R&D $$$$ has gone? It’s a LOT of money spent the last 4 years, a LOT.
Why does TiVo have such a hard time FINISHING a product? Is it bad management? A “CABLE COMPANY” type “half-assed” is good enough for them – attitude. Problem is….TiVo is NOT cable, no “near” monopoly for them, and it explains the drop in subs over the last 5 years.
Can’t wait for the 6 tuner model, but will they finish the OSD even THEN?
@Dean-L,
TiVo had had a whole-home solution for their MSO partnered, the Preview, for a long time. Their decision to not launch it to retail was probably driven by the cost of producing the box.
Until the BCM7418 chip came onto the market, the ability to offer a Preview-like experience on an extender connected to a Broadcom host DVR may have been the key factor in the delay.
It appears that TiVo has a pretty solid product with the Mini with features and capabilities not offered by most cable operators whole-home DVR solutions.
Dean,
The R&D money has gone to developing products for TiVo’s primary customer, MSOs. TiVo’s retail product has always been a go to market strategy with the real goal being MSOs. So with MSOs already buying Previews, there was no rush on the retail product.
FYI cmonroe has identified the product information for folks trying to pick these up at Best Buy and we have word of someone getting a pre-order of sorts in, as the units are still in the warehouse in at least one district. Folks in smaller markets without regional warehouses may actually have better luck getting a Mini now, as cmonroe did.
SKU 8505056
Model TCDA92000
His initial TiVo Mini impressions are here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9560958#post9560958
cmonroe writes:
“On the plus side, the user interface experience is MUCH faster. Speed wise it’s what the premiere should have been from day 1.”
Woo-hoo! All hail the BCM7418.
Exciting times coming for the retail TiVo ecosystem as this chipset broadens out to other equipment. First real reason to buy stuff since the TiVo HD came out, IMHO.
—–
Obviously the channel surfing issue is a bummer for folks who channel surf. (A set of folks who don’t include me.)
But one wonders why the lag is there. Four possible answers:
1) Mini hardware limitation
2) Mini software limitation
3) Elite hardware limitation
4) Elite software limitation
If it’s any of the answers but #1, it’s an issue that should go away over time.
And I do wish cmonroe would chime in with description or video of what the UX of playing a recorded program on the Mini is like…
Maybe none of the above – it already takes like, what, 2 seconds to tune a CableCARD channel? Throw in another 2 seconds to buffer a tiny bit and there you are. That’s my guess anyhow.
I’m guessing the lag is still related to populating certain metadata from the internet. We know, for example, that poster art is provided directly to the Mini via the internet. TiVo is shifting more and more services to the Cloud.
Excellent comments Chucky… I don’t recall ever hearing you say something so positive about TiVo. ;-)
“Maybe none of the above – it already takes like, what, 2 seconds to tune a CableCARD channel? Throw in another 2 seconds to buffer a tiny bit and there you are.”
Well, if you are correct, that’s a combo of #1 and #3, with #3 not fixable by the Elite’s successor…
And after a quick test, I think you are likely correct. Since I don’t channel surf, I didn’t realize just how slow CableCARD channel surfing is. Just tried it on my otherwise snappy TiVo HD, and, yeah, it’s amazingly slow already, without having to factor in a second box.
So, to extrapolate, channel surfing would be an inherent problem in any CableCARD Whole Home setup, TiVo or not, no?
“Excellent comments Chucky… I don’t recall ever hearing you say something so positive about TiVo.”
I’m actually a big TiVo fan. I genuinely love being a TiVo customer.
But as a single teevee household, with the possession of the rudimentary skills necessary to upgrade my beloved TiVo HD to 2TB, I didn’t find the S4 hardware compelling. (To be more clear, I found the S4 hardware appalling. I really value ‘teh snappy’ in my gear that I regularly interact with. And I never trusted that the S4 SDUI emulation mode software was going to be reliable.)
But now, it seems as if they’re finally on the verge of cranking out something compelling enough for me to upgrade. Here comes the sun. It’s been a long, cold lonely winter.
As always, TiVo makes the worst DVR’s in the world with the single exception of all the other DVR’s…
Makes sense Chucky. I think the speed of the UI on the Premiere is so much better now than it used to be but I am really looking forward to a snappy UI.
I posted the review at TiVo Community and what Chucky is saying is my best guess. You figure changing channels on the Premiere directly which has a cable card, and my market just upgraded to SDV ~3 week ago so one of the gigantic Cisco TAs, takes about 2 seconds anyway. The extra second to setup the streaming session if you figure an average of 3 seconds per channel change is nothing. I’d actually have to say that browsing the “Now Playing” list and starting a recorded show on the Mini is faster, even over a network connection, than it is directly on the Premiere. If they add Netfllix support to the Mini and fix tuner allocation I’d almost consider hiding the premiere in a closet somewhere and using the Mini as a thin client for all TVs just due to its responsiveness. I rarely watch live TV so a faster UI + better user experience is a plus in my mind.
browsing the “Now Playing” list and starting a recorded show on the Mini is faster, even over a network connection, than it is directly on the Premiere
THAT is pretty killer. But does it say more about the Mini or about the Premiere? ;) And thanks again for sharing your photo and thoughts with our community.
“I’d actually have to say that browsing the “Now Playing” list and starting a recorded show on the Mini is faster, even over a network connection, than it is directly on the Premiere.”
Woo-hoo! All hail the BCM7418.
“…I’d almost consider hiding the premiere in a closet somewhere and using the Mini as a thin client for all TVs just due to its responsiveness…”
Yeah. The headless server setup was my guess a week ago as the tastiest solution for currently shipping hardware. Of course, one would assume they’ll stick the BCM7418 in a box with a platter drive and tuners at some point, which is what I’m waiting for…
—–
“You figure changing channels on the Premiere directly which has a cable card, and my market just upgraded to SDV ~3 week ago so one of the gigantic Cisco TAs, takes about 2 seconds anyway.”
I’m happily on FIOS, so no TA for me, and as I just discovered this morning, channel surfing is still damn slow. So I’m assuming the slowness is just baked into the whole CableCARD scheme.
Surprisingly if I pull my cable card and just browse un-encrypted channels (like the networks) it’s still slow. I’d say it’s either the TiVo or simply the HD decoders. Even channel surfing on a modern HD TV is slow to me. To everyones point though, no one really channel surfs anymore (why we all bought TiVo boxes or some other DVR).
Actually, I’m pretty sure my wife and I watch more live+OTT content than DVR-ed programming these days. However, I’ll still be picking up that Mini with Reward Zone cash and will probably subscribing on a month-to-month basis as I anticipate also trying out Verizon’s new media server DVR and clients when released later this year.
I’m starting to think the ideal setup might be putting the XL4/Elite on the less used Television (bedroom) with the Mini connected to primary TV viewing set (family room)….
Like you Dave, I watch a lot of OTT + Live TV but I tend to use the TiVo iPad app as my guide and remote control so channel change speed isn’t a critical issue for me.
“So, to extrapolate, channel surfing would be an inherent problem in any CableCARD Whole Home setup, TiVo or not, no?”
Yeah I believe Media Center is just about as slow. It has something to do with the combination of CableCARD and possibly Mpeg2. I remember reading about it on the Media Center discussion threads, but don’t recall the exact technical reason someone posted.
Just found a *est *uy (Name hidden to protect the innocent) that had 2 in stock (though they were “in the back”. They are holding them for me at the front desk. On my way to pick them up.
Chad’s taken a few pictures of the TiVo Mini circuit board. He can’t identify the Broadcom model, but we pretty much know what it is. Also looks like 256MB memory, 2GB flash storage.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9561390#post9561390
Chucky, I believe this is something of a “companion” chip and that it’s platter equivalent will be even higher powered and capable of transcoding if they use the same Broadcom in the TiVo Pace XG1 (which is also used by the DISH Sling Hopper).
DC metro region has 12 Minis in the Maryland warehouse. They can be purchased in-store now for store or home delivery within the next few days. I’m not super literate with Best Buy’s inventory system but, from what the clerk showed me, it also looks like more units could be on order or enroute.
@DailyPlanet: Any luck finding yourself a couple?
@Dave: I haven’t seen the XG1 yet, that looks pretty cool. Although I think 4 tuners is enough for me that’s the same idea as what I may do… hide the ugliness of the Premiere, giant SDV adapter, and Stream away in a closet and then just put a Mini in the living room.
Only 12 for the entire region!?!? I guess those will be gone rather quickly.
I was able to get one. I even had $10 in reward bucks I had forgotten about. This was in Everett, Mass. When I was calling around, several stores said they would be getting them in Sunday night for a supposed launch on Monday. Hopefully I can get lifetime activated on it tonight.
“Only 12 for the entire region!?!? I guess those will be gone rather quickly.”
After the TiVo Desktop kerfuffle, TiVo has sensibly chosen to do the release by using Morac as their lone currier. Morac flies to Alviso, fits as many units as he can fit into his backpack, and then flies them around the country to various retail outlets.
Morac is only human, so he’s gotta sleep sometime. Just relax, and the units will get to where you are eventually.
Apparently didn’t take very long for one to hit eBay!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TiVo-Mini-Brand-New-Unreleased-To-Public-Unannounced-By-TiVo-/190809463708?pt=US_DVRs_Hard_Drive_Recorders&hash=item2c6d215b9c
I was able to activate it at the correct price for lifetime, but when I try to set it up it gives a “TiVo DVR Not Found” error. As well as an error code. When I looked it up on TiVo.com it said this. “NOTE: At this time, a TiVo Mini will not work with a retail TiVo Premiere series DVR.”
@dailyplanet,
Did you allocate a tuner to it from the 4-tuner Premiere 4/XL4? It sounds like its not seeing the host DVR.
@DailyPlanet: I purchased a second Mini today and ran into the same problem. Luckily I was able to activate my other Mini (albeit with a monthly plan @ $12.99/mo no contract) as if it were a regular Premiere. That was yesterday; today at activation time it recognized it as a Mini and I purchased lifetime but ran into the same issue. I change my 4-tuner Premiere from allowing 1 tuner for network usage to 2 tuners to no avail.
I think TiVo caught on and is holding back until whenever the actual retail launch date is. The crappy part of the deal is we technically paid for a device and paid for service but we can’t use it. Luckily my primary works; the secondary was to replace the client in the Living Room (where the 4-tuner, SDV adapter, and Stream live currently) and move those devices to the closet. I can wait a few more days to do this.
I’m still quite curious to know why TiVo held up the launch. On my working Mini everything I’ve tested has been rock solid. I took a ton of high quality pictures and a video for zatznotfunny.com, expect to see them up in a day or two.
“I purchased a second Mini today and ran into the same problem … I change my 4-tuner Premiere from allowing 1 tuner for network usage to 2 tuners to no avail … I’m still quite curious to know why TiVo held up the launch.”
Well, I’d say the fact that you’re having problems getting your second Mini to connect could well be your answer as to why the launch was held up. Thus, the official launch would be waiting on TiVo finishing a minor software update.
In other words, the current software rev will work with one Mini, but not two, if your experience is replicable…
Tried to pick one up at Best Buy yesterday (Chicago suburb) but none were available. Looks like they are still waiting release at the local DC.
But I did get an Apple TV yesterday to work on a short term
Fix that is. It works ok. Resolution is ok but not close to HD. There is some choppiness and you need to adjust the resolution to fill the screen. Might be losing some of edges.
Will have to wait for TV mini before I decide what I like better or will have a mix of these solutions in my house.
I let it sit overnight and restarted it this morning, and bam! Everything works properly. I did go on my account at TiVo.com last night and it said activation pending. Please wait 24 hours. This morning it just says activated. I guess there is a delay to clear the credit card or to push the activation out to the device(s).
I just plugged my second one back in and it worked flawlessly this morning. You’re right, it must have just taken longer to activate. The first one activated in a few minutes, this one just seems to have taken longer but all is well.
Daily, do you have access to the Season Pass manager as Chad does, and which seems to diverge from CNET’s accidentally published-then-removed review?
Talked to BB rep…was told rollout is March 17. Also told that only Magnolia stores will carry stock. Purely ‘for order’ elsewhere.
The TiVo Mini Page just went live on the main TiVo.com web page -> http://www3.tivo.com/products/tivo-mini/index.html
@Dave, I don’t have the season pass manager, but I can edit the season pass of a show currently on my TiVo, or add new ones.
The 6 tuner nod is by FAR the best part of this. Hurry please TiVo. Father’s Day approaches…