Does iPhone Video Out Really Matter?

Monday night, Netflix released an update to their iOS video streaming app – consisting of some bug fixes and iPhone video out capabilities. Basically, items so minor that I didn’t even bother taking a screengrab. Fast forward about half a day and the blogosphere has written off all set-top boxes and pay TV:

This update now positions Netflix as somewhat of a competitor to Apple’s newly refreshed Apple TV platform, Google’s upcoming Google TV service, media center boxes like Boxee and Roku and even some cable company DVRs like those provided to Verizon FiOS customers, for example, which already offer an assortment of popular TV shows and movies for free streaming.

I can’t even bring myself to reiterate all the ways in which video out is a poor solution, unless you live in a dorm room or travel for work. But here’s what we collectively had to say on Twitter yesterday, in reverse chronological order (as in: start at the bottom and read up).

17 thoughts on “Does iPhone Video Out Really Matter?”

  1. Of course, we don’t yet know how AirPlay will work out. It could be the killer app and doesn’t require you physically tether your iPhone to the television. But Apple’s official $50 component out kit is probably best reserved for sharing still photos and personal videos shot with the iPhone. Not streaming services like Netflix and Hulu.

  2. I travel frequently, and video out capabilities on the iPhone make my phone the perfect portable entertainment device. Many hotels let you connect your own input devices, giving you a TV viewing experience from you phone. While Netflix on iPad is an otherwise miserable experience, that app has had this output capability from early on. Would I like to have a remote? Sure, but I’m not using this at home from my sofa. It’s more useful that I can have a great viewing experience of my content while on the road.

  3. Yeah, traveling is another good use case – post updated. It’s probably something I should have thought of given my years on the road. Then again, while I was still traveling I packed the original Roku and took it with me. It fits in a Ziploc bag. (Although some hotel firewalls blocked whatever ports they use…)

  4. “Of course, we don’t yet know how AirPlay will work out. It could be the killer app and doesn’t require you physically tether your iPhone to the television.”

    Y’know, we don’t need to wait. We can pretty much game this out right now. It’s basic network infrastructure.

    Let’s take Netflix HD as a good example of “good enough” HD. They test for a constant 5Mbs stream before even attempting to send their 4Mbs stream. So, for safety, let’s say you need a guaranteed 8Mbs stream for Netflix HD.

    Now, let’s envision what is needed to have your iOS device act as a wireless hub. If you’re WiFi AP or router is attached to you aTV via ethernet, than you need to handle 2 simultaneous streams, one from WiFi to the iPad, and one from the iPad back to the WiFi. If your aTV is not connected via ethernet, than you need to handle 3 simultaneous streams, with the third one obviously going from WiFi to aTV.

    Now, my bare bone, competent, and cheap 5ghz Wifi access point can routinely handle 80Mbs in throughput. Third-party reviews have claimed throughput can dip to as low as 35Mbs in worst case situations.

    Now, do the math. 3 simultaneous 8Mbs allocations is still only 24Mbs. In a worst case situation, my $40 5ghz access point can handle the traffic of a Netflix HD stream from AP to iOS device, from iOS device back to AP, and finally from AP to aTV, all simultaneously.

    —–

    Caveat: while the iPad has a 5ghz radio, the iPhone and iTouch don’t. I’d guess it’ll be a year until the next refresh. If you don’t have 5ghz, none of this will be possible. If you are stuck on 2.4ghz, you don’t have any kind of guaranteed bandwidth available to fritter away on simultaneous streams. (If you are stuck on 2.4ghz, you will have significant problem achieving just one “good enough” HD stream.)

    In short, if you’ve got an iPad and a competent in-house network infrastructure, there is no reason why “good enough” HD streaming would be negatively impacted by using the iPad as an intermediary device.

  5. Well… you still need an AppleTV and we don’t know what quality video will be sent *to* the iPhone that we’ll then relay. Your Netflix HD assumptions are based on existing set-tops and desktop browser access. And with Hulu Plus coming to Roku and TiVo, AirPlay *for video* is less interesting for me. Not to mention your point related to dual band 802.11n to most effectively handle the video streaming/switching duties.

  6. I also travel quite a bit and while on the surface, video out from the iPhone/iPad sounds like a reasonable solution, my experience has been that download speeds at most hotels is not that great. I typically get lots of buffering on the rare occassion I try to watch a video on my laptop. Additionally, I’m not sure how well video optimized for a smaller screen will look when blown up for viewing on a 32″ or 40″ screen, the typical size in most rooms.

  7. “Your Netflix HD assumptions are based on existing set-tops and desktop browser access.”

    Well, my Netflix HD assumptions seem more like a lean-back industry wide technological limit number, no? At 4Mbs, you are the very low end of “good enough” HD streaming. If you go down to 2.5Mbs, you end up with what Hulu Plus ships, which is noticeable artifacts.

    If Netflix went up to 8Mbs, quality would get a bit better. And with my FIOS line-in, and with my bare-bones 5ghz access point, I could still handle 3 simultaneous streams.

    In short, for the foreseeable future, (a year or two), looking at 4Mbs to 8Mbs streams is a realistic way of looking at lean-back “good enough” IPTV delivery. It’s not idiosyncratic to the existing Netflix setup. I’d strongly imagine Apple is delivering their streams at a similar rate.

    “we don’t know what quality video will be sent *to* the iPhone that we’ll then relay.”

    I can’t imagine Netflix has any incentive to throttle their streams to their iPad client below what they send to set-top boxes.

    Some video providers will take different approaches, obviously. Going back to Chucky’s Lawâ„¢, low-res video has no pricing power. So providers who are sending low-res streams to iOS for low-cost, and then expect to sell hi-res streams under a different pricing structure will obviously have decisions to make about how to best handle AirPlay. In short, you’ll get what you pay for.

    And, again, your iPhone doesn’t have the necessary radio chip to handle hi-res lean-back AirPlay. That kind of PQ bandwidth is restricted to the iPad at the moment.

    “Not to mention your point related to dual band 802.11n to most effectively handle the video streaming/switching duties.”

    The lack of attention paid to 5ghz never ceases to amaze me.

    We’ve got a incredibly cheap way to in-house wirelessly transmit very hi-res IPTV streams, and no one pays any attention to it. I’m always amazed when I see streaming video bulletin boards where folks are arguing about channel 1, 6, or 11.

    You don’t even need dual band. You just need a cheap-o 5ghz only AP to handle your wireless TV needs. You’ve already got an old 2.4ghz router to handle your iPhone. Dual-band is for newbies.

  8. “And with Hulu Plus coming to Roku and TiVo, AirPlay *for video* is less interesting for me.”

    Dave, like most sane folks, you’re not even particularly interested in Hulu Plus.

    Also, I don’t think you yet see even a glimpse of what the appeal of AirPlay (and whatever similar technique Andriod rolls out 18 to 24 months later) is all about. This is going to be a revolution, not Hulu Plus.

    AirPlay is going to happen in slow-motion, but imagine what things are going to look like in a year. We are finally going to have a supplementary UI for the lean-back experience that is radically different than the TiVo peanut UI. And that supplementary UI is going to be as versatile as the damn web browser. It really is the Next Big Thing.

  9. Well… I have been paying for Hulu Plus. It’s a bit like On Demand, so I don’t have to remember to record new shows (and don’t have to bother offloading from a DVR). However, I’m only using it at the gym on the stairclimber at this point. And the lack of cable series is annoying.

    Regarding AirPlay, we’ll see what happens… As we’ve discussed before I’m current mostly interested in streaming audio from iPhone, used as a remote, to connected speakers. Sonos-esque, but with even more audio choices (like Slacker and XM, that I pay for but currently mis-out on.)

  10. I’m on my 3rd video cable (use them so much I wear them out). Finally got one extra to stay permanently attached to my TV. I had been using my iPad for the netflix out (have the hook up on the table beside the couch, so I have iphone/pad right there to control). I went to use the iPhone netflix and was disappointed no video out.

    I don’t use netflix travelling so much, but nice to have instant netflix on the tv, instead of just on my computer. I do stuff my iphone with video on goodreader now, to play when I visit other people, instead of carrying dvds.

    I guess I don’t worry about the quality so much. If I want quality I get the dvd and don’t use the instant for that. Off wifi, the netflix doesn’t always play good enough with 3g.

    I’d rather play off my phone and have the iPad for working/games.

  11. In *very* casual testing, the updated iPhone Netflix app did better on 3G – fewer drops, higher quality. Could be coincidence, could be that particular video (Chappelle’s Show), or a change they made on the back-end. I’d probably go with coincidence for now. Given my early disdain for Hulu Plus, it’s a bit ironic their 3G streaming has been much better and why I rely on it over Netflix for now.

  12. You iPhone’s entertainment folder looks eerily similar to mine!! I mostly only use the Slingbox app to watch TV outside while smoking a bowl tho ;)

  13. I’m actually looking forward to being able to watch Netflix content while on road trips in the van (as a passenger, of course). I only wish that Sling would follow suit and enable video out on their iphone app.

  14. that Netflix is allowing video out is the big news in itself. Sounds like Netflix feels it can finally flex its own muscles and do things that content providers might have wnated to prohibit if they could

  15. Chucky,

    I too am wildly hopeful for AirPlay, but I’m not sure its going to work like you indicate. Since the phone clearly isn’t going to be compressing the video itself, just relaying what it gets, I think its probably reasonable to assume it might not even be in the circuit once the thing is handed off. I initiate video playback on my iPhone then TRANSFER IT to the Apple TV.

    Don’t know that’s how its going to work of course. But I suspect part of it, that the Apple TV has to decode the video, is going to be true. Meaning its not going to be good enough for your iPhone to know how to play the video (say thru VLC or OPlayer) rather the Apple TV needs to know how to play it. Meaning its got to be h.264 within certain specs or mp4. And if there’s any DRM its probably got to be FairPlay.

    If this is true, then you might not need as much Wifi bandwidth as you think. Its also less likely that something like Sling Player will be able to make use of the Apple TV since it probably doesn’t stream in a compatible format.

    So iTunes stuff would work. Hulu might not (DRM? ad enforcement?) Or might not until the Hulu Plus app is updated to support AirPlay. Sling Player probably won’t work. ABC might or might not (DRM? ad enforcement?) or might have to wait for an update. CBS.com HTML 5 video? Will probably work assuming the DRM is compatible?

  16. “I too am wildly hopeful for AirPlay, but I’m not sure its going to work like you indicate … I initiate video playback on my iPhone then TRANSFER IT to the Apple TV.”

    While I appreciate the engineering simplicity of this approach, I don’t think that’s what AirPlay is going to do. My understanding is that all media will quite literally passthrough the iOS device.

    The logic for this is that the handheld iOS device becomes the UI, which is the real appeal of AirPlay. If you were to ever transfer control to the aTV, then you completely change UI metaphors, and I think AirPlay is designed to avoid this.

    In short, if you’re watching something via AirPlay, and dunk your handheld iOS device in a bucket of water, you’ll immediately lose picture on your aTV.

    “If this is true, then you might not need as much Wifi bandwidth as you think.”

    The type of “signal handoff” you are describing would indeed require less WiFi bandwidth.

    But that’s why the math is important. Inexpensive 5ghz WiFi gear means that you can have an adequate WiFi network in your TV room to handle all the redundant streams necessary to handle the inefficient AirPlay model.

    Think of it this way: three simultaneous WiFi streams is less of a bottleneck than the single wire coming into your house.

    “Meaning its not going to be good enough for your iPhone to know how to play the video (say thru VLC or OPlayer) rather the Apple TV needs to know how to play it. Meaning its got to be h.264 within certain specs or mp4. And if there’s any DRM its probably got to be FairPlay.”

    The only relevant detail is whether or not the app supports AirPlay.

    If the app enables AirPlay, the video will stream to your aTV. If not, not.

    The actual decoding will be done by whichever device is actually displaying the picture.

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