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	<title>Comments on: DECE: The DRM Clearinghouse</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-09/dece-the-drm-clearinghouse/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-09/dece-the-drm-clearinghouse/</link>
	<description>All your digital media goodness.</description>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-09/dece-the-drm-clearinghouse/comment-page-1/#comment-83054</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zatznotfunny.com/?p=4753#comment-83054</guid>
		<description>Music labels couldn&#039;t get their shit together, so DRM free is the only way.  Now, video is different than music, but I don&#039;t currently see any signs the outcome will be different.

The iPod has 70+% of the portable player market, i.e. the market for things that play music and are sometimes used for video.  I have an iPod.  My wife has an iPod.  I have an Apple TV.  I am willing to RENT movies and TV shows in this ecosystem because of all of this, but that&#039;s about it.  I would NEVER consider that something digital with DRM on it would be something I OWN.  NEVER.  If there weren&#039;t a crack available that worked really well, continuously over multiple versions.

As others have pointed out, DVDs are still where its at for now.  Digital video distribution is getting something like 0.5% of people&#039;s entertainment dollar.  And DVDs are easily ripped.  Yet Sony has encombered BlueRay with enough DRM that most players won&#039;t play the most recent BD releases without updates.  And many of these players don&#039;t have an auto-update function, and aren&#039;t net connected.  Heading fast towards the ground now...  Good things these things are so cheap and boot up so fast, oh wait...

Yes, if Microsoft could get the Zune and XBox to support this, and the PS3 did too, and it all worked together magically without issue for law abiding citizens, then I might be interested.  The iPod mostly works like this, but its a pretty closed system.

Microsoft can&#039;t even seem to get their act together between the Zune, the XBox, and Media Center though, so I&#039;m not sure I&#039;m so sanguine that this&#039;ll all work out well...  In fact, I would bet large sums of money against it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Music labels couldn&#8217;t get their shit together, so DRM free is the only way.  Now, video is different than music, but I don&#8217;t currently see any signs the outcome will be different.</p>
<p>The iPod has 70+% of the portable player market, i.e. the market for things that play music and are sometimes used for video.  I have an iPod.  My wife has an iPod.  I have an Apple TV.  I am willing to RENT movies and TV shows in this ecosystem because of all of this, but that&#8217;s about it.  I would NEVER consider that something digital with DRM on it would be something I OWN.  NEVER.  If there weren&#8217;t a crack available that worked really well, continuously over multiple versions.</p>
<p>As others have pointed out, DVDs are still where its at for now.  Digital video distribution is getting something like 0.5% of people&#8217;s entertainment dollar.  And DVDs are easily ripped.  Yet Sony has encombered BlueRay with enough DRM that most players won&#8217;t play the most recent BD releases without updates.  And many of these players don&#8217;t have an auto-update function, and aren&#8217;t net connected.  Heading fast towards the ground now&#8230;  Good things these things are so cheap and boot up so fast, oh wait&#8230;</p>
<p>Yes, if Microsoft could get the Zune and XBox to support this, and the PS3 did too, and it all worked together magically without issue for law abiding citizens, then I might be interested.  The iPod mostly works like this, but its a pretty closed system.</p>
<p>Microsoft can&#8217;t even seem to get their act together between the Zune, the XBox, and Media Center though, so I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;m so sanguine that this&#8217;ll all work out well&#8230;  In fact, I would bet large sums of money against it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan Y</title>
		<link>http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-09/dece-the-drm-clearinghouse/comment-page-1/#comment-82972</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Y</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 02:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zatznotfunny.com/?p=4753#comment-82972</guid>
		<description>At this point, I&#039;m DRM-free with Amazon, so I&#039;m more concerned about video. But with that, I just want to see one marketplace for all purchaseable &amp; streamable content. And THEN, someone will come along and bypass any nasty DRM :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At this point, I&#8217;m DRM-free with Amazon, so I&#8217;m more concerned about video. But with that, I just want to see one marketplace for all purchaseable &amp; streamable content. And THEN, someone will come along and bypass any nasty DRM <img src='http://www.zatznotfunny.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Lokisince89</title>
		<link>http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-09/dece-the-drm-clearinghouse/comment-page-1/#comment-82889</link>
		<dc:creator>Lokisince89</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zatznotfunny.com/?p=4753#comment-82889</guid>
		<description>This sounds like it could go the way of a system like Steam. 
Different entities creating content and having a common company provide the sales and validation. In the PC software world it seems that Steam is widely regarded as the &quot;best&quot; drm system in use. 
With Steam i can go to any PC, download &amp; install the games i own and play without any issues.  A system for media that would allow me to log in and access all the video/audio content i own would be acceptable to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sounds like it could go the way of a system like Steam.<br />
Different entities creating content and having a common company provide the sales and validation. In the PC software world it seems that Steam is widely regarded as the &#8220;best&#8221; drm system in use.<br />
With Steam i can go to any PC, download &amp; install the games i own and play without any issues.  A system for media that would allow me to log in and access all the video/audio content i own would be acceptable to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Zatz</title>
		<link>http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-09/dece-the-drm-clearinghouse/comment-page-1/#comment-82861</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Zatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 00:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zatznotfunny.com/?p=4753#comment-82861</guid>
		<description>Martin, even worse (or maybe I&#039;m schizophrenic) - I&#039;ve accidentally bought iTunes content under davezatz@yahoo and davezatz@mac and I can&#039;t authenticate both on my iPhone simultaneously. And that&#039;s when I became a patron of the DRM-free Amazon MP3 store.

Hopefully whatever this consortium cooks up allows for offline storage of keys/licenses (re: DRM-de-DRM-DRM) and allows multiple keys/licenses or merging to address your concern. We shall see...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin, even worse (or maybe I&#8217;m schizophrenic) &#8211; I&#8217;ve accidentally bought iTunes content under davezatz@yahoo and davezatz@mac and I can&#8217;t authenticate both on my iPhone simultaneously. And that&#8217;s when I became a patron of the DRM-free Amazon MP3 store.</p>
<p>Hopefully whatever this consortium cooks up allows for offline storage of keys/licenses (re: DRM-de-DRM-DRM) and allows multiple keys/licenses or merging to address your concern. We shall see&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-09/dece-the-drm-clearinghouse/comment-page-1/#comment-82860</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 00:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zatznotfunny.com/?p=4753#comment-82860</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s one crappy use case for DRM.

Suppose person A marries to person B.  Both, A and B, have purchased massive amounts of video content.

How are they supposed to manage their Amazon Unbox, iTunes and other video collections in a non-retarded way.  (A retarded way would involve two tivo&#039;s with each tied to a different account)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s one crappy use case for DRM.</p>
<p>Suppose person A marries to person B.  Both, A and B, have purchased massive amounts of video content.</p>
<p>How are they supposed to manage their Amazon Unbox, iTunes and other video collections in a non-retarded way.  (A retarded way would involve two tivo&#8217;s with each tied to a different account)</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Zatz</title>
		<link>http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-09/dece-the-drm-clearinghouse/comment-page-1/#comment-82854</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Zatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zatznotfunny.com/?p=4753#comment-82854</guid>
		<description>My premise is less about why DRM exists or even if it should exist. My premise is that DRM methods are not going away, so what sort of scenario would improve the situation for us consumers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My premise is less about why DRM exists or even if it should exist. My premise is that DRM methods are not going away, so what sort of scenario would improve the situation for us consumers?</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-09/dece-the-drm-clearinghouse/comment-page-1/#comment-82853</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zatznotfunny.com/?p=4753#comment-82853</guid>
		<description>Mr. Zatz, got nothing but respect for you and I love reading this blog, but dang - faulty premise!

You have completely ignored the true nature of any DRM:

It is the assumption of guilt against the Consumer that he is, without proof, a thief!

You may not assume I am a criminal. You not booby trap your products so you can effectively kill switch them from a remote hidden location, at an undisclosed time, rendering what I spent my money on useless, in order to make me buy the same product again.

Obviously I could write 1,000 words on just this nasty accusation alone, but I&#039;ll just jump to the point.

We Consumers are an EQUAL player along with the Artist and the Media company. If anything, as a collective, we Consumers are the superiors of the media companies. Their &quot;tone&quot; and &quot;intent&quot; needs to reflect that and they must get themselves out of the dark ages with that &quot;Its good to be the king&quot; attitude ala Mel Brooks.

End rant ( All apologies to ZNF readers )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Zatz, got nothing but respect for you and I love reading this blog, but dang &#8211; faulty premise!</p>
<p>You have completely ignored the true nature of any DRM:</p>
<p>It is the assumption of guilt against the Consumer that he is, without proof, a thief!</p>
<p>You may not assume I am a criminal. You not booby trap your products so you can effectively kill switch them from a remote hidden location, at an undisclosed time, rendering what I spent my money on useless, in order to make me buy the same product again.</p>
<p>Obviously I could write 1,000 words on just this nasty accusation alone, but I&#8217;ll just jump to the point.</p>
<p>We Consumers are an EQUAL player along with the Artist and the Media company. If anything, as a collective, we Consumers are the superiors of the media companies. Their &#8220;tone&#8221; and &#8220;intent&#8221; needs to reflect that and they must get themselves out of the dark ages with that &#8220;Its good to be the king&#8221; attitude ala Mel Brooks.</p>
<p>End rant ( All apologies to ZNF readers )</p>
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		<title>By: DRM-de-DRM-DRM</title>
		<link>http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-09/dece-the-drm-clearinghouse/comment-page-1/#comment-82850</link>
		<dc:creator>DRM-de-DRM-DRM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zatznotfunny.com/?p=4753#comment-82850</guid>
		<description>The big problem with DRM, or at least the biggest I see, is also the one that seems to get the least attention:

What happens when you have a DRM scheme that requires a &quot;phone home&quot; scenario, and Ma Bell has disconnected the line?  What I mean is, what happens if the server that authenticates the license for the content is not available?  I&#039;m not talking about unavailability due to a server outage, but one where the service no longer exists, period.

As it turns out, this scenario has already transpired in a manner of speaking.  See the following URL about the shutdown of Yahoo&#039;s Music service (if the URL gets stripped: google boingboing yahoo music):

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/24/yahoo-music-shutting.html

The fact of the matter is that any DRM authentication that entails a remote server runs the risk of being dodo-ized.  While people (Americans especially) want convenience, DRM will not be much of a concern.  But whither convenience if they can no longer access their DRM secured content if it cannot be authenticated?

Actually, it may not require a DRM authenticator to fold.  Acquisition by a competitor will do it too --eventually something will change somewhere, and that will kill the authentication.  Anything from server/host changes to software will do.  By the way, the &quot;well, you should update the software&quot; rationale is not valid.

Sometimes software updates are not possible.  What does someone who cannot afford the latest hardware, and/or whose current system cannot  run, Vista do when support for W2K or XP is dropped?  Or who changes platforms from say Windows to Linux or MacOS (or any other kind of similar transition)?

The consumer has a right, under fair use and personal use, to access the content he/she acquired under any condition that qualifies as legitimate in the eyes of fair/personal use.  The removal of the authentication system for a DRM scheme violates the user&#039;s rights _IF_ that results in an inability to access the content under the fair/personal use principle.

Think about it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The big problem with DRM, or at least the biggest I see, is also the one that seems to get the least attention:</p>
<p>What happens when you have a DRM scheme that requires a &#8220;phone home&#8221; scenario, and Ma Bell has disconnected the line?  What I mean is, what happens if the server that authenticates the license for the content is not available?  I&#8217;m not talking about unavailability due to a server outage, but one where the service no longer exists, period.</p>
<p>As it turns out, this scenario has already transpired in a manner of speaking.  See the following URL about the shutdown of Yahoo&#8217;s Music service (if the URL gets stripped: google boingboing yahoo music):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/24/yahoo-music-shutting.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/24/yahoo-music-shutting.html</a></p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that any DRM authentication that entails a remote server runs the risk of being dodo-ized.  While people (Americans especially) want convenience, DRM will not be much of a concern.  But whither convenience if they can no longer access their DRM secured content if it cannot be authenticated?</p>
<p>Actually, it may not require a DRM authenticator to fold.  Acquisition by a competitor will do it too &#8211;eventually something will change somewhere, and that will kill the authentication.  Anything from server/host changes to software will do.  By the way, the &#8220;well, you should update the software&#8221; rationale is not valid.</p>
<p>Sometimes software updates are not possible.  What does someone who cannot afford the latest hardware, and/or whose current system cannot  run, Vista do when support for W2K or XP is dropped?  Or who changes platforms from say Windows to Linux or MacOS (or any other kind of similar transition)?</p>
<p>The consumer has a right, under fair use and personal use, to access the content he/she acquired under any condition that qualifies as legitimate in the eyes of fair/personal use.  The removal of the authentication system for a DRM scheme violates the user&#8217;s rights _IF_ that results in an inability to access the content under the fair/personal use principle.</p>
<p>Think about it&#8230;</p>
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