Todd Spangler at Multichannel broke the news this morning. Comcast is buying up to six million digital terminal adapters (DTAs) this year in an effort to migrate to all-digital broadcasts throughout 20% of its footprint in 2008. The DTAs are coming from Motorola (my employer), Pace and Thomson. DTAs work by converting QAM channels broadcast without encryption to analog signals. They don’t include any conditional access technology, a program guide, or support two-way services such as VOD.
[Note from Dave: I received a tip from Glenn (thanks!) last week referring to USA Today coverage of same. Wonder if Comcast may attempt to bypass SDV entirely by freeing up this bandwidth? Hmmm. Perhaps going all QAM will force them to standardize how they label and map these channels (verus the current Comcast clear QAM chaos in my region).]
Interesting. The one thing I can say is that I hope these things are more reliable than the full blown Motorola cable boxes I’ve had in the past. Right now, the TVs hooked up to analog cable pretty much just work, even if the signal is a little iffy. Throwing a cable box into the mix, even a very simple one, seems likely to cause a lot more reliability problems. But I’d definitely be happy if they find a way to get more bandwidth for additional HD channels…
Whoo-hoo, QVCHD!
I think more QAM would be great. All of the basic channels are watched enough that they shouldn’t need SDV. Honestly if they ditch the analog channels, it should give them some extra room so they can stop compressing the hell out of the HD.
I guess as long as they reposition the new clear QAM on the frequencies currently covered by expanded basic traps and data only traps, there will be no real issue.
If you subscribe to at least expanded basic, you won’t have a trap… so all TV’s with QAM tuners can get the digital version of that lineup. If you are a basic only subscriber or data only subscriber, then you would have a trap to deter theft and/or unauthorized reception. Same way it’s done now, but with digital frequencies in the place of analog ones.
Yep. I got a letter from Comcast yesterday(!) saying that they are eliminating analog channels starting July 15, 2008 in my area (Metro West Boston). They offered free SD box for 1 year – they mentioned on-demand features of the new service, so may be it’s not just DCT700 that folks in Chicago got. Or it could be just a marketing ploy – trying to entice me with the new feature, without telling me that the box would not support it.
Now I need to find something to hook up to my 4 analog tuners in my 2 HTPCs!
On another note – would this mean that they will unencrypt currently encrypted QAM channels? This would be cool – currently everything is encrypted here except the locals and PBS.
And one more – Kevin Garnett CAN’T have FIOS in his house in Massachusetts – Concord MA DOES NOT have FIOS.
1.) in a year the cost of Comcast’s basic cable service will include a fee for a box.
2.) Comcast might be able to tell you what your service will cost without first knowing where you live.
How will this effect TiVo Series3 on Comcast?
Brian, your S3 is already digital capable – can handle clear QAM (though no mapping utility) without CableCARDs, and of course with CableCARDs all the channels (and where you’d expect them).
It sounds like Series 2 customers currently withOUT a cable box would need to run one of these devices between the wall outlet and their DVR and use an IR blaster to change channels, though…
Dave, you are correct. This box performs a D to A conversion only, no guide, no VOD/PPV, etc.
As far as I can tell (research by google comcast dta) all of these boxes are just really simple STBs, with IR remotes and so forth. While the Pace box looks more like a dongle and some of the talk is about “converters” or “zappers” they all come with IR pickups and remotes. It is suggested that they won’t have VOD/PPV access, but since that’s a revenue generator for the cable MSO I wouldn’t be shocked if that weren’t true.
20% of the markets are going all digital on expanded basic by the end of 2008. The rest in the next few years. However, since this isn’t a complete all digital transition (the basic cable/broadcast channels will still be in analog), I don’t think this lets Comcast off the hook for the integration ban, which makes these STBs, which don’t support CableCard, problematic.
Lots of discussion suggests this means the boxes won’t support encryption, meaning they can’t receive any of the higher-tier channels. And like cypherstream suggests above there’s lots of speculation these channels will be in the clear but will use frequencies currently occupied by expanded basic analog channels, therefore behind traps. Which would mean the channels will be in the clear and tunable by PC QAM tuners or TVs that support QAM channels or the Tivo HD/Series 3 boxes that support QAM.
However, I think it leaves out the Tivo Series 2, which will now need a box even if it is only for expanded basic. Will also make the second tuner on a Tivo DT less useful, though I suppose it will still be able to record the Basic cable/broadcast channels.
Supposedly this is some 40-odd analog channels that would be freed up, which is enough for 80 digital HD, or 240 SD, or a bunch of DOCSIS 3.0 bandwidth or some combination thereof.
And yes there is some speculation that because Comcast’s SDV deployments aren’t going well, this is the alternative that will let them increase HD, and broadband bandwidth without SDV. Probably good news.
I wonder if TiVo will provide IR blaster support on old S1 boxes for these new digital adapters, or if this will finally be curtains for the old S1 boxes (in which case I will finally have a reason to migrate my still-transferrable lifetime service over to my $6.95/month-to-month Series 3, or to a new HD to simply replace the old S1).
For that matter, I wonder if TiVo will provide IR blaster support for the S2? We’re assuming that it’s either already there, or that they will add it…
One of my questions is how will the new DTA lock and map clearQAM? Will Comcast have to insert common PSIP mapping in each program? If so, then no complex addressing / channel table would be required in the DTA, reducing the costs of them, and not requiring an addressable controller to inform the DTA’s of ‘where to find channel x’. If common PSIP data is used, then perhaps TivoHD and other QAM tuners will be able to utilize the full digital lineup using a normal 2 through 99 numbering scheme.
For all we know, generating PSIP information in the MPEG stream could be a simple firmware update (if not already supported) on the current GQAM gear in the headend.
So we have two technical hurdles to surpass.
1. Preventing unauthorized reception of clear QAM signals. This is archived by engineering the QAMs around the current trap scheme. Not really rocket science.
2. How to get the DTA (and regular QAM tuners as a bonus) to tune the channels using a standard numbering scheme from 02 through 99. The DTA is cheap, so there possibly is no addressability in the device. If a device is addressable, shouldn’t it have cable card? Or can a device be addressable, but only render unencrypted streams? Perhaps at first ‘boot’ it does a channel scan, then saves that map into a small nvram space.
@ cypherstream
You’re very close on some stuff, way off on others. I can say that no cable company is going to buy a product that would require the (re)deployment of traps nor would they be keen on sending out channels in the clear.
Here’s the “math” on the DTA:
no OOB tuner + no guide + no interactivity + no “encryption” = not a set-top
Remember, even analog converter boxes from back in the day were one way addressable.
@cableric
Well the operator does not have to redeploy all new traps. For example we have a trap here in our Comcast system that eliminates channels 28 through 65. If you only subscribe to basic or basic+data, you will have this trap installed at the tap port.
All they have to do is locate the expanded basic unencrypted QAM in the frequency space between ch 28 and 65 (anywhere, closer to the center would be better, right at the traps peak band rejection performance). We would still be using the same traps in inventory. Since the digital signals can’t be encrypted, or god forbid the DTA would require a Cable Card slot… they need to be effectively controlled so that people with over the counter QAM tuners don’t tune what they are not paying for.
True, the old analog SA boxes we had (and Jerrold in another system) were one way addressable. It will require an addressable controller and some frequency space to relay a simple FSK program of the lineup to the DTA’s. Your looking at small frequency area’s between channels to locate the auth. frequency. Here our standard Motorola digital OOB is on 104.5 MHz, so We could locate the DTA FSK stream on or around 74~75 MHz (Between channel 4 and 5).
Each area’s frequency layout and current trap inventory will vary, but the same principal applies.
@ cypherstream
Ahh, you’re in the business…
Am I reading things wrong, or is the article saying Comcast is going to switch what’s now “basic analog cable” over to digital as well, and make it available to current analog customers by way of those “little” boxes?
Am I also right that these channels will be unscrambled, and will be in a format OTHER digital tuners (as in QAM-able) will be able to receive?
If so, people with QAM equipment would still get the “cable-ready” channels without needing a digital cable box.
Can anyone confirm I’m getting this right, or am I filling in a few blanks with imagination?
@ gastrof
It SOUNDS like it COULD be that way but it won’t. Yes they will be converting a majority of the analog line-up to digital, except for “lifeline” channels, however, the digital channels built for the DTA will not be traditional clear QAM.
I don’t know, AFAIK the Motorola boxes can only do 64QAM or 256QAM, Clear or Motorola Mediacipher encrypted.
If it’s not traditional clear QAM, the FCC might get a little pissed since it’s 1) a non-standard format and 2) security or decompression device is not separated.
I’m at a loss what to do. I am considering upgrading my televisions to new ones with ATSC/QAM tuners but if they encrypt everything that would be pointless. I understand that Comcast is doing away with the expanded basic package and replacing it with digital for no additional cost however after a year you will need to pay a rental fee for the box. If the converted package is encrypted than obviously there will be an additional cost. This suggests that one would need to buy televisions that are cable card ready. I hear the FCC mandates that the cable companies will be required to support this however the cards aren’t readily available and if the cable company provides it they may charge a rental fee for that as well. While HD is nice and any new equipment I buy would be HD I would be hard pressed to pay a rental fee for every single piece of equipment in my home. If I have to do that I may as well purchase a satellite system and have portability as well as more HD programming rather than HD Choices (PPV,On-Demand).
Wow, Motorola eh. I have nothing but bad luck with all of their products and I do everything possible to avoid them. I am stuck with their cable boxes now and only get about 9 months out of any of them plus they are energy vampires…
why does my new flat panel lcd tv with a QAM tuner not get most of the digital signals from my cable line? (Comcast territory NW New Jersey)
Without a CableCARD device, you’ll only be able to tune unencrypted QAM channels. So it’s quite likely the more interesting cable channels will be out of reach with your setup.
To access channels 30 and above on Basic Expanded cable, can one buy these boxes rather than getting them via Comcast? I think you can get two free, but if you need more you have to rent them for $1.99 per month — I don’t want to do that.
In WA state, they have started to make the switch on many of their channels.
A lot of reading and electronics from what was. If someone wants to keep their great working analog TV`s,VCR`s and DVD recorders you may have to get a DTA for each set up. Dish Network is the best deal if you have more than 3 tuners to replace but the cost is verry high. $50+ to Comcast $70+ and a lot of digital boxes. And when adding the year cost 5years 10 years wow how about running a line from your neightbors and splitting the cost?
A new LCD TV with an HD tuner can tune in direct from comcast without a cablebox. I have 3 and they each pick up about 100 analog and 40 digital. Several are 1080i. They look great. However, the channel numbers are channel-subchannel (e.g., 103.105, or 104.32) and so far I haven’t been able to find a mapping. I talked to comcast and they have no idea what I am talking about. LOL. FYI.
>> tekops
http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels_us
:-)
BE CAREFUL OF COMCAST 2 FREE BOXES FOR CONVERSION FROM ANALOG TO DIGITAL….THIS BOX ELIMINATES HIGH DEFINITION (HD) FROM YOUR TV, WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY AVAILABLE AND THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GET HD BACK IS IF YOU RENT A HD BOX FROM THEM FOR AN EXTRA $13.95/MONTH FOR EACH EXTRA TV THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE THE HD PICTURE IT HAD BEFORE THIS COMCAST UPGRADE…A STEALTH RATE INCREASE AS MORE AND MORE HD TV’S APPEAR IN YOUR HOME…..LETS ALL PROTEST AT FRANCHISE RENEWALS IN OUR TOWNS TO STOP THIS RIPOFF….
Good post! vnoeihbgt